Heresy Trials - Results and fallout

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Re: Heresy Trials - Results and fallout

Post by AshWilcox » 10 Sep 2018, 11:43

In all honesty whilst I understand the defender of the faith of Crowa was thrust into that scenario in the council of light due to the former primates retirement he should be held to a higher set of standards since his remit is to root out and prevent heresy, especially considering he had a voice on the council of light
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Re: Heresy Trials - Results and fallout

Post by Astra » 10 Sep 2018, 11:53

While I agree that actual heretics do not deserve succour from any true light god worshiping citizens, I do not consider Primate Fletcher to be a heretic, and I disagree wholeheartedly with this decision to have him branded. He was not even given a chance to appeal against this decision, the sentence was passed and punishment given immediately!

Perhaps he has unwittingly committed heresy in the eyes of the law by showing any kind of support for ex Primate Stephen but anyone who was present when the coat of longstor was bestowed on him could see the proof of the purity of his spirit in front of their very eyes. Longstor himself has endorsed him and endowed him with the strength of the pack. Are we to say that Longstor was wrong? No. Longstor chose Collin Fletcher to hunt in his name and we all saw it!

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Re: Heresy Trials - Results and fallout

Post by TimC » 10 Sep 2018, 12:18

Would you say therefore that no light God worshipper could truly be a heretic then ranger Astra'Thia?

Or are they only a heretic if the gods cast them out?
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Re: Heresy Trials - Results and fallout

Post by Astra » 10 Sep 2018, 12:29

No, that is not what I am saying at all. I would shun ex Primate Stephen for his actions, for instance. But Primate Fletcher has committed no such heresy, and has himself said he disagreed with ex Primate Stephens creation of a dual shrine. The only thing he was standing with the man in defence of was his moral character and following the sins of Vleybor.

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Re: Heresy Trials - Results and fallout

Post by Elanor » 10 Sep 2018, 12:32

I guess it's playing at the semantics game but some folk see committing heresy and being a Heretic as different things and even the law distinguishes between types of heresy. Openly worshipping something other than the Seven and proudly wearing your holy symbol of one of the Six can get you executed and outlawed, committing "other" heresy won't.

I ain't commenting on the decision of the Courts, but most of us do see a distinction between heresy and a Heretic, rightly or wrongly.

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Re: Heresy Trials - Results and fallout

Post by DOF Sidhe » 10 Sep 2018, 12:33

Recent information from Judge Richard Tregothic, Baron of Plymbury.

High Father Felix, Primate of Tralda, was found guilty on the charge of heresy - it is clear from the evidence provided that he underminded the worship of the seven and the people’s trust in the churches as a whole.

He will be branded a heretic and given seven lashes. He will also been stripped of his position as Primate due to the result of this trial.
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Re: Heresy Trials - Results and fallout

Post by lord dollery » 10 Sep 2018, 12:56

Phew ladies and gents we better strap on our belts and pull up our trousers we might be here a while.
Astra wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 11:53
While I agree that actual heretics do not deserve succour from any true light god worshiping citizens, I do not consider Primate Fletcher to be a heretic, and I disagree wholeheartedly with this decision to have him branded. He was not even given a chance to appeal against this decision, the sentence was passed and punishment given immediately!
Someone who is guilty of heresy is a heretic, same way someone who murders someone is a murderer, just because their heretics who follow dark gods, and heretics who follow light gods doesn't really change what a heretic is.

You might not consider him a heretic, but the King's Law does and that's the rules we follow and abide (Unless you're a Primate it seems). Personal opinion doesn't change that, when I get stabbed in the gut I don't go "I don't think I have actually been stabbed!" and it change the fact I'm pissing blood everywhere, personal opinion doesn't change the fact that the law has deemed him to be a heretic, again you can disagree with the punishment of branding but its a standard punishment for heretics, its in the law document and those who commit heresy know that's what happens. Again punishment happening is how the law works, you commit a crime you get punished, if we didn't have these laws we'd all be eating each other...
Astra wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 11:53
Perhaps he has unwittingly committed heresy in the eyes of the law by showing any kind of support for ex Primate Stephen but anyone who was present when the coat of longstor was bestowed on him could see the proof of the purity of his spirit in front of their very eyes. Longstor himself has endorsed him and endowed him with the strength of the pack. Are we to say that Longstor was wrong? No. Longstor chose Collin Fletcher to hunt in his name and we all saw it!
Now we are in some dangerous water, praise be to Longstor. Longstor does not make the law, Longstor doesn't really care for our mortal laws. The laws are set by the King and the King is blessed and chosen by Longstor to hold this land together and keep all of the lands and its people safe from corruption and worse things. Being gifted the blessed coat does not make the Primate immune to mortal laws, or their punishment, he could have the coat and murder people all day long, assault, torture, kidnap, lie, cheat and worse crimes and I would assume (I am simply not worthy to assume such) that even after all of these crimes that the Primate would still be possession of the blessed Cloak of Longstor, being chosen by your God to lead your church does not make your actions untouchable or make you infallible to crimes or their punishment, Primates blessed with holy items or not are not above the law, there is only one person above the law and that is the King.
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Re: Heresy Trials - Results and fallout

Post by Reaver91 » 10 Sep 2018, 13:08

If Primate Felix of Tralda has been stripped of his position of Primate for being a heretic, I hope that the other Primates found guilty suffer the same punishment.

No heretic should rule a Church, except the bad ones obviously.
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Re: Heresy Trials - Results and fallout

Post by Astra » 10 Sep 2018, 13:15

lord dollery wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 12:56
Someone who is guilty of heresy is a heretic, same way someone who murders someone is a murderer, just because their heretics who follow dark gods, and heretics who follow light gods doesn't really change what a heretic is.
Yes, except Primate Fletcher has not done anything except show limited support for a heretic. The equivalent in the terms you are using would be someone defending a murderer to try and help them get a reduced sentence, and then being themselves charged with murder for defending them!

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Re: Heresy Trials - Results and fallout

Post by lord dollery » 10 Sep 2018, 13:23

Astra wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 13:15
lord dollery wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 12:56
Someone who is guilty of heresy is a heretic, same way someone who murders someone is a murderer, just because their heretics who follow dark gods, and heretics who follow light gods doesn't really change what a heretic is.
Yes, except Primate Fletcher has not done anything except show limited support for a heretic. The equivalent in the terms you are using would be someone defending a murderer to try and help them get a reduced sentence, and then being themselves charged with murder for defending them!
I appreciate the example but the murder being a murderer for defending a murderer doesn't really work in the example but 8/10 for effort.

The courts have deemed that the Primates actions were heresy, supporting and assisting someone who is a heretic can also be seen (And clearly has been seen) as undermining the worship of the Seven, which is why he's been found guilty, not really much to add. We can all go "Well, I don't think he did" or some might go "Well yea I think he absolutely did" but opinions and personal conjecture doesn't matter, representatives of the King's law have deemed his actions as heretical, that's really the end of it. Now i'll admit, if the Primate has his conviction appealed and Chief Justice deems his conviction wrong I will be the first to mount the walls, shout from the top of my lungs a public apology so loud that Crowa Herself can hear me, but until then, he's a dirty heretic.
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