Primates, dual shrines and morality

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lord dollery
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Re: Primates, dual shrines and morality

Post by lord dollery » 29 Sep 2018, 00:19

Mike P BL8 wrote:
28 Sep 2018, 17:47

Are you feeling well Brogar?
Ohh yea I forgot my sarcasm doesn't come through on these forum posts.

i'll rephrase.

They got caught, they tried to hide it but they fucked it. They were forced by the Arch-Duke to assist or they'd get stuffs seven different ways.

That is not the actions of people sorry of what they did. Saying "I'm really sorry" doesn't immediately fix things.

We definitely shouldn't forget this, people need and must be held accountable for their actions, thats how law and punishment works.
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Re: Primates, dual shrines and morality

Post by paul_austin » 29 Sep 2018, 00:57

lord dollery wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 00:19
We definitely shouldn't forget this, people need and must be held accountable for their actions, thats how law and punishment works.
To my knowledge they have all been held accountable for their actions, they have stood trials and decisions have been made by the Archduke.

I am incredibly intrigued as to why so many seek to question him.
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Re: Primates, dual shrines and morality

Post by Mike P BL8 » 29 Sep 2018, 08:06

Sidney, The law has been met with response from the Archduke and he is not being questioned.

The churches are being questioned on how they can with clear morals allow themselves to be led by blasphemers.

This is what I seek to understand
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Re: Primates, dual shrines and morality

Post by TimC » 29 Sep 2018, 09:24

In my eyes it's the equivalent of a witch leading the mages guild. Wouldn't, and shouldnt happen.

Except unlike the mages guild the churches style themselves as the moral heart of our country. So when the 'moral heart' or the leader thereof does something that damages that, there its going to be discussion most likely for years. As it damages our nations reputation abroad, and their own standing amongst the nations populace.
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Re: Primates, dual shrines and morality

Post by Markea Samdi » 29 Sep 2018, 15:43

I encountered a non-adventuring Crowan the other day who stated he would not touch a member of the Schools of dark arts, even if it were to tie a bandage, because of our 'association' with demons and undead. I could have said something about stones and glass houses and heretics but did not.
The long and short of it is, if you are going to go about acting as a moral watchdog for everyone, do not be surprised when they expect the same rigorous morality to be applied to your own organization.
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Re: Primates, dual shrines and morality

Post by ShaunL » 29 Sep 2018, 16:14

TimC wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 09:24
In my eyes it's the equivalent of a witch leading the mages guild. Wouldn't, and shouldnt happen.

Except unlike the mages guild the churches style themselves as the moral heart of our country. So when the 'moral heart' or the leader thereof does something that damages that, there its going to be discussion most likely for years. As it damages our nations reputation abroad, and their own standing amongst the nations populace.
Lowlife not speak for ennyone else but him never claim to be moral heart for ennyone else eever, or dat church is. Lowlife serve Lonsgtor furst and Ithron sekond. Lowlife live according to Longstor's ways but never insist uvvers do same except when da rule is dat I tell uvvers to follow rule.

Lowlife not care about "standing" (except when grass too wet to sit) or repyootation - Lowlife just serve Longstor.
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Re: Primates, dual shrines and morality

Post by Mike P BL8 » 29 Sep 2018, 16:47

Lowlife you are a ambassador of your faith, your actions or inactions can damage peoples view of your church.

Primate Fletcher, I have received message that some people think this is a personal crusade on my behalf to ensure you lose primacy.

Please note this is nothing against you personally. I feel that any of the primates or defenders who were part of the unforgiveable act of the dual shrine creation are not fit to lead a holy church andseek by to be convinced by reasoned discussion.

With regards to this I do respect your willingness to enter debate and feel this is a positive point in your favour.

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Re: Primates, dual shrines and morality

Post by ShaunL » 29 Sep 2018, 19:39

Mike P BL8 wrote:
29 Sep 2018, 16:47
Lowlife you are a ambassador of your faith, your actions or inactions can damage peoples view of your church.
Hoomans fink Lowlife not deserve pteckshun of law. Hoomans fink being in church make no difference, no matter wot rank Lowlife hold. Lowlife cud be acting primate (ho ho, not likelee) and enny hooman still be free to murder Lowlife wiv no penalty under hooman law.

So why shud Lowlife care wot hoomans fink about Lowlifes ackshuns or not ackshuns?
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Re: Primates, dual shrines and morality

Post by Mike P BL8 » 29 Sep 2018, 20:09

Lowlife in your case you are a ambassador of both your faith and of your race, your action or inaction colours public opinion.

By leading a good life those who encounter you will protect you and defend you or should you chose a darker path they will neglect or revile you.

When I first came back to adventuring I watched a half orc priest give sermon and was applauded for their work for Ithron, something I had never expectede to see. I was amazed, moved and dumbstruck by the event which helped me overcome my own prejudices.

Every step you make means those who come after you will get a easier or harder time in Ithronian society based on the life you lead, the choices you make and the sacrifices you endure.

We are all judged by our actions, I for one see no reason to treat you with anything other than courtesy.
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Re: Primates, dual shrines and morality

Post by JWarne » 29 Sep 2018, 23:30

You've made the perfect point there, Mr Meetshack. We are all judged by our actions.

Why not give those involved in this the chance to prove their worth, as it were?

High Father Stephan did not ask the council for permission. He asked for forgiveness after the fact. He did not inform anyone, at least not to my knowledge. The council chose to stand beside him as a member of the Council or Light.

Whether that decision is right or wrong, that is neither here nor there. They have been judged and found guilty of blasphemy. The only one found guilty of heresy is High Father Stephan.

I personally stand by my Primate. Primate Calderon, and all those in the Council of Light, chose to attempt to keep things running smoothly. It did not work. And they have all paid for it a hundred times over with how they have been eviscerated by the adventuring community since.

We can all say, "Well, I wouldn't have done this if I were in that situation", but the fact remains we were not and we cannot know how we would do in that situation until we are in it.

I want Calderon to stay as Primate of Rolbor. I want Collin to stay as the Primate of Longstor. I want Felix and Mordrid and Bray and Caleb to stay as their respective positions. I make this choice as a law-abiding and god-fearing citizen of Ithron.

These, however, are my opinions. If you feel they have made mistakes, allow them to make up for it. Allow them to prove why they are the leaders of our Churches.

With faith,

Chaplain Virginia
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